Comments on: Will an Expansion Dilute or Expand the Yale Brand? http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/ Because the Medium is the Message Wed, 09 May 2012 09:02:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Chrishttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4720 Chris Tue, 10 Jun 2008 15:03:57 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4720 Lars » That may well be true. When I went to the country's most expensive school, GWU (we beat Middlebury), all of the foreign students were generally exceptionally wealthy and, in the case of GW, were being fed from the diplomatic corps in DC. I hate to admit it but I don't think that $50,000/year is an unreasonable price-point for putting a child through the best schools on the planet, especially when yuppies are spending tens-and-hundreds of thousands of dollars on cars and golf club fees. But, that's another story. Lars » That may well be true. When I went to the country’s most expensive school, GWU (we beat Middlebury), all of the foreign students were generally exceptionally wealthy and, in the case of GW, were being fed from the diplomatic corps in DC. I hate to admit it but I don’t think that $50,000/year is an unreasonable price-point for putting a child through the best schools on the planet, especially when yuppies are spending tens-and-hundreds of thousands of dollars on cars and golf club fees. But, that’s another story.

]]> By: Larshttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4719 Lars Tue, 10 Jun 2008 14:49:21 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4719 Chris, I'm pretty sure that need-blind policy is extended to foreign students as well. The likely situation is that foreign applicants for the undergrad are likely to be fairly wealthy and hence will pay retail, just like a wealthy US student. Since university education is fairly cheap around the world (high education prices seems to be a US phenomena), I suspect that it is mostly the wealthy (or those studying at the "American School of XX", who are also pretty wealthy too) that are considering studying in the US. Perhaps, this "need-blind" policy is not so well advertised to the everyday person in another country and thus they think that they have to pay the full $50,000 and then don't apply. Chris, I’m pretty sure that need-blind policy is extended to foreign students as well. The likely situation is that foreign applicants for the undergrad are likely to be fairly wealthy and hence will pay retail, just like a wealthy US student. Since university education is fairly cheap around the world (high education prices seems to be a US phenomena), I suspect that it is mostly the wealthy (or those studying at the “American School of XX”, who are also pretty wealthy too) that are considering studying in the US. Perhaps, this “need-blind” policy is not so well advertised to the everyday person in another country and thus they think that they have to pay the full $50,000 and then don’t apply.

]]> By: Chrishttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4712 Chris Mon, 09 Jun 2008 23:28:56 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4712 Lars » Additionally, as my friend James, who is pursuing an existential crisis in Berlin after his first year at Harvard College, told me, "Chris, Harvard is offering such exceptional student aid for undergrads that they're really hungry for overseas students who are required to pay retail." Does that make sense to you? Lars » Additionally, as my friend James, who is pursuing an existential crisis in Berlin after his first year at Harvard College, told me, “Chris, Harvard is offering such exceptional student aid for undergrads that they’re really hungry for overseas students who are required to pay retail.” Does that make sense to you?

]]> By: Larshttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4706 Lars Mon, 09 Jun 2008 20:29:03 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4706 Levin is all about his global thing. He's always talking about China this and India that. His true vision is to make Yale a GLOBAL university. I'll bet that the expansion is for an incoming global student body. I remember my year, we had like 2 people from Germany, maybe 3 from Malaysia, 2 from Japan, actually maybe 1 from Japan, etc.... If you think about it, that's some mad low numbers for an entire country. Only a few universities can make a truly global brand and the true leaders of tomorrow are the globe-trotting elite who basically divide their time between New York, London, Paris, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, maybe Dubai now. Yale is going to go for this increasingly larger and larger global group Levin is all about his global thing. He’s always talking about China this and India that. His true vision is to make Yale a GLOBAL university. I’ll bet that the expansion is for an incoming global student body. I remember my year, we had like 2 people from Germany, maybe 3 from Malaysia, 2 from Japan, actually maybe 1 from Japan, etc…. If you think about it, that’s some mad low numbers for an entire country. Only a few universities can make a truly global brand and the true leaders of tomorrow are the globe-trotting elite who basically divide their time between New York, London, Paris, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, maybe Dubai now. Yale is going to go for this increasingly larger and larger global group

]]> By: Chrishttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4699 Chris Mon, 09 Jun 2008 13:18:41 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4699 James » Yes. But it couldn't hurt. The folks they choose anyway might not become the president, anyway, and I know quite a few "duds" from Harvard and Yale who are only "useful" because they're eager to donate money to their college -- probably to try to lock up a legacy spot. However, I think the expansion has mostly to do with making it possible for Yale to be able to accept both the best students, based on a meritocracy, as well as the best children of the best Yalies and those pillars of society who wished they were. In other words, maybe there will be more space for the Gentleman Cs. My friend, the country's best telecom lawyer, told me that he would be unable to get into Yale Law these days. I wonder how many of tomorrow's leaders can no longer make it into the top schools? OK, OK, some of the coolest people I know have graduated from Ivies, so I have nothing but admiration for them. James » Yes. But it couldn’t hurt. The folks they choose anyway might not become the president, anyway, and I know quite a few “duds” from Harvard and Yale who are only “useful” because they’re eager to donate money to their college — probably to try to lock up a legacy spot. However, I think the expansion has mostly to do with making it possible for Yale to be able to accept both the best students, based on a meritocracy, as well as the best children of the best Yalies and those pillars of society who wished they were. In other words, maybe there will be more space for the Gentleman Cs. My friend, the country’s best telecom lawyer, told me that he would be unable to get into Yale Law these days. I wonder how many of tomorrow’s leaders can no longer make it into the top schools? OK, OK, some of the coolest people I know have graduated from Ivies, so I have nothing but admiration for them.

]]> By: Jameshttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4697 James Mon, 09 Jun 2008 09:02:23 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4697 Chris -- of course you're right in terms of the schools wanting to claim 'dibs on the presidents and Nobel laureates of the future.' But this is only of significance if they really think that the extra students that they're admitting might be those people -- which of course might not always be the case. (Though with such a small sample size it probably is). Chris — of course you’re right in terms of the schools wanting to claim ‘dibs on the presidents and Nobel laureates of the future.’ But this is only of significance if they really think that the extra students that they’re admitting might be those people — which of course might not always be the case. (Though with such a small sample size it probably is).

]]> By: Chrishttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4677 Chris Sun, 08 Jun 2008 14:37:19 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4677 James » I agree with you 100%, especially were we to both agree that Yale and the Ivies and the top-25 have noble aims.What I take from what you and Mr. Levin said, both on-topic, is that the main and most important goal is to choose candidates who will "make a larger contribution, be more successful, have a better experience, donate more money," with the focus on really being able to make dibs on the presidents and Nobel laureates of the future when they're only pups: a Harvard Man or someone who would Eli proud."When the sons of Eli Break through the line That is the sign we hail Bulldog! Bulldog! Bow, wow, wow Eli Yale!" James » I agree with you 100%, especially were we to both agree that Yale and the Ivies and the top-25 have noble aims.

What I take from what you and Mr. Levin said, both on-topic, is that the main and most important goal is to choose candidates who will “make a larger contribution, be more successful, have a better experience, donate more money,” with the focus on really being able to make dibs on the presidents and Nobel laureates of the future when they’re only pups: a Harvard Man or someone who would Eli proud.

“When the sons of Eli
Break through the line
That is the sign we hail
Bulldog! Bulldog!
Bow, wow, wow
Eli Yale!”

]]> By: Jameshttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4671 James Sun, 08 Jun 2008 11:18:18 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4671 I wonder if and how much of this is a reaction to Harvard's big new expansion, which is a fifty-year project to build up a new site in Allston. Regardless, hard to say that Harvard with its $38b endowment couldn't come up with some real estate (and in fact the school's surreptitious purchasing of land through third-party agents has gotten a lot of Cantabridgians and Bostonians upset). Regardless, the question about dilution or expansion has more to do with the students that Yale is rejecting than the students that they're accepting. If they feel like they're seeing more candidates who they'd like to let in than they can, than this can only be good for them, both because they'll be able to bring in more people that they like and -- in my opinion more importantly -- there won't be as much risk in deciding between two candidates that you're rejecting the one that will make a larger contribution, be more successful, have a better experience, donate more money, etc. If you can have both, why not have both? As long as they're not in a position of admitting people solely in order to fill a number it's to their benefit.Anyway, that's my two cents. It'll be interesting to see what this announcement provokes from Harvard, Stanford, Princeton and the like, who're continually playing an increasingle unhealthy game of branding one-upsmanship. I wonder if and how much of this is a reaction to Harvard’s big new expansion, which is a fifty-year project to build up a new site in Allston. Regardless, hard to say that Harvard with its $38b endowment couldn’t come up with some real estate (and in fact the school’s surreptitious purchasing of land through third-party agents has gotten a lot of Cantabridgians and Bostonians upset). Regardless, the question about dilution or expansion has more to do with the students that Yale is rejecting than the students that they’re accepting. If they feel like they’re seeing more candidates who they’d like to let in than they can, than this can only be good for them, both because they’ll be able to bring in more people that they like and — in my opinion more importantly — there won’t be as much risk in deciding between two candidates that you’re rejecting the one that will make a larger contribution, be more successful, have a better experience, donate more money, etc. If you can have both, why not have both? As long as they’re not in a position of admitting people solely in order to fill a number it’s to their benefit.

Anyway, that’s my two cents. It’ll be interesting to see what this announcement provokes from Harvard, Stanford, Princeton and the like, who’re continually playing an increasingle unhealthy game of branding one-upsmanship.

]]> By: Chrishttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4668 Chris Sun, 08 Jun 2008 04:01:34 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4668 Stevie » And, to be honest, the reason why GWU has to charge over $50,000/year is because nobody would ever consider donating money to GW -- they didn't create a "camp" experience. It is a practical school -- you go there to become a bureaucrat. Means to an end. None of my fellow-GWU alum look back at their alma mater with misty eyes the way they do at some of the better "service" schools. GW has no foundation to speak of. It operates hand-to-mouth. Stevie » And, to be honest, the reason why GWU has to charge over $50,000/year is because nobody would ever consider donating money to GW — they didn’t create a “camp” experience. It is a practical school — you go there to become a bureaucrat. Means to an end. None of my fellow-GWU alum look back at their alma mater with misty eyes the way they do at some of the better “service” schools. GW has no foundation to speak of. It operates hand-to-mouth.

]]> By: Steviehttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4659 Stevie Sun, 08 Jun 2008 01:00:34 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4659 I heard that Vanderbilt treats their students like valued customers which is obviously the Yale way. I think it's interesting that the uni's that are doing ok are the ones going out of their way to be good to the students because after all they are "paying customers" .. and a bad rep will haunt them. GWU and the rest who make you think that students should kiss the hallowed ground-- should think about kissing something else (like goodbye to attend other colleges) I heard that Vanderbilt treats their students like valued customers which is obviously the Yale way. I think it’s interesting that the uni’s that are doing ok are the ones going out of their way to be good to the students because after all they are “paying customers” .. and a bad rep will haunt them.
GWU and the rest who make you think that students should kiss the hallowed ground– should think about kissing something else (like goodbye to attend other colleges)

]]> By: Chrishttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4658 Chris Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:58:01 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4658 My ex went to Yale and where Yale excels is in Customer Service. In addition to the world's best staff and an embarrassment of resources, what Yale offers is the best undergraduate experience in the history of education outside of Oxbridge.What that means is that my ex really never wanted to even go abroad because going abroad meant leaving New Haven.The biggest difference between Yale and GWU (aside from all of the others) is that GW expects its students to appreciate being there while Eli Yale never ceases to show its appreciation in every way -- both current students as well as their parents and the alumni -- which makes Yale the best place to attend and makes all those who have spent four in New Haven generous for life.In terms of customer support, appreciation for students, and general return on investment -- including the very real favoritism lavished on legacy applicants and generous financial aid for all who make the cut -- is what makes Yale the best.Oh yeah, the academics, too. But a lot of colleges and universities have excellent professors, many of whom were Yalies. Academics is not what makes a college great, it is access, it is resources, and it is customer service.IMHO My ex went to Yale and where Yale excels is in Customer Service. In addition to the world’s best staff and an embarrassment of resources, what Yale offers is the best undergraduate experience in the history of education outside of Oxbridge.

What that means is that my ex really never wanted to even go abroad because going abroad meant leaving New Haven.

The biggest difference between Yale and GWU (aside from all of the others) is that GW expects its students to appreciate being there while Eli Yale never ceases to show its appreciation in every way — both current students as well as their parents and the alumni — which makes Yale the best place to attend and makes all those who have spent four in New Haven generous for life.

In terms of customer support, appreciation for students, and general return on investment — including the very real favoritism lavished on legacy applicants and generous financial aid for all who make the cut — is what makes Yale the best.

Oh yeah, the academics, too. But a lot of colleges and universities have excellent professors, many of whom were Yalies. Academics is not what makes a college great, it is access, it is resources, and it is customer service.

IMHO

]]> By: Steviehttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4657 Stevie Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:50:21 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4657 Totally agree. And when you have larger numbers of alumni and students that your competitors-- who wins? The students or the university because its' rep gets better at taking in more students Totally agree. And when you have larger numbers of alumni and students that your competitors– who wins? The students or the university because its’ rep gets better at taking in more students

]]> By: Chrishttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4656 Chris Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:48:55 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4656 Yale is lucky that it lives in New Haven for just that very reason; however, I think the added income is not important to Yale at the moment because of the current holdings that are in excess of $22B.What I think it is about is exactly what Mr. Levin said, which is:"This expansion will allow us to make an even greater contribution to society by preparing a larger number of talented and promising students of all backgrounds for leadership and service."Which is code for: more alumni and more influence on culture, business, and politics. Yale is lucky that it lives in New Haven for just that very reason; however, I think the added income is not important to Yale at the moment because of the current holdings that are in excess of $22B.

What I think it is about is exactly what Mr. Levin said, which is:

“This expansion will allow us to make an even greater contribution to society by preparing a larger number of talented and promising students of all backgrounds for leadership and service.”

Which is code for: more alumni and more influence on culture, business, and politics.

]]> By: Steviehttp://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4655 Stevie Sun, 08 Jun 2008 00:41:06 +0000 http://chrisabraham.com/2008/06/07/will-an-expansion-dolute-or-expand-the-yale-brand/#comment-4655 The reasons for doing this is two-fold and definitely have serious impact on other equivalent level universities. 1) $$$-- the almighty dollar. Does Harvard or Stanford have the space to create 2 more residential colleges? Do they have the financial holdings to create, populate and pay for instructors?I don't think Harvard has more space-- though Princeton might. Stanford probably doesn't have the space and given the cost of land right now in Silicon Valley, there's no way they can get more space and more instructors out of the budget. 2) the number of students they bring in will give them the ability to bring in more tuition and increase their visibility and create a bit more momentum for their curriculum, their faculty and also for the bottom line. They can let in more students who wouldn't have the financial ability to come in but would bring more diversity to the university. ok soapbox over The reasons for doing this is two-fold and definitely have serious impact on other equivalent level universities.
1) $$$– the almighty dollar. Does Harvard or Stanford have the space to create 2 more residential colleges? Do they have the financial holdings to create, populate and pay for instructors?

I don’t think Harvard has more space– though Princeton might. Stanford probably doesn’t have the space and given the cost of land right now in Silicon Valley, there’s no way they can get more space and more instructors out of the budget.
2) the number of students they bring in will give them the ability to bring in more tuition and increase their visibility and create a bit more momentum for their curriculum, their faculty and also for the bottom line. They can let in more students who wouldn’t have the financial ability to come in but would bring more diversity to the university.
ok soapbox over

]]>