In short, dating is about starting a relationship. A relationship is with a person. Relationships are about people.
Relationships with people is all that matters. When it comes to relationships its all about the long game: marathon not sprint, circumnav not regatta, lifestyle change not hair cut.
An authentic relationship with an authentic person will always be long game. Seduction is short game. Getting someone drunk is short game. The third date rule is short game. Role play is short game. Game-playing is short game. Getting laid is a short necessary evil.
The real thing is always going to be long game and is never going to look the way you thought because people are all insane and love is a very messy thing. Go for the long game.
Start building relationships and start being open and vulnerable to being loved back and stop being goal-oriented when it comes to relationships, friendships, and lovers.
Yes, of course you can still be goal oriented in all other facets of your life — you’re a Washingtonian, after all, and not from either Omaha or Mill Valley.
Comments (17)
Yup.
oh, and ‘gulp.’
Chris-
I stumbled upon your site while doing a google search. It was a topic on a similar subject from last March where you and Natalie were sparring over first date sex. Below is what I would have posted to the thread if I had seen at the time:
On the topic of short term thinking;
I was once thought of the short term seduction game as fun. I thought there was nothing wrong with such behavior. I had had ten girls by the time I left High School, entered a 5 year relationship. By the time that ended I was up 18 and done with college. By the time I met my wife I had had another 4 year relationship and was at 40 some- by the time I married her I was over 50. Only 6 were one night stands. When I was still in college I developed my idea of the “skanky men, skanky women” routine of most night clubs, wherein the participants all get each other to believe their lies and other BS for the sole point of acting like a pair spaniels in heat.
Quite a player, huh? Well, the thing is is that when I was 22 I dated a woman 6 years older then me- who stressed that two people had to be friends first- if they could stand each other’s company for enough time to become friends, then they could have sex (perhaps actually make love?) and have something to talk about the next day- or next week. If a relationship developed from there, it was based upon genuine friendship, not lust and had the chance of surviving.
She was right. Because I became good friends with my wife before we had sex (6 weeks, but she says two months) our friendship weathered, off an on, through two years of not being together as a true couple- but the friendship continued to grow, and so did my love for her. In the 4th year, we married.
She was “seeing” someone else when I met her at the age of 27 (she 25). Like others I had known, it took me a month or so to get him out of the picture. She didn’t get it- she thought I didn’t want her, only wanted friendship. It took two women 20 odd years older then her to explain it to her- she had never been courted. They told her how romantic it was- right down to the small inconsequential gift I bought for her as we walked after the first dinner date- that it was meant to be a memento and that should it work out long term, she would have that as a memory forever. That’s when she dumped the “other guy” without ever looking back.
In the twenty years I’ve known her our sex could never be said to have been boring, nor has it lacked the punch of passion or genuine desire- that’s what real love and real understanding brings to a relationship- genuine desire. Desire is very different then lust and anyone who has experienced it knows that.
What I’m talking about here is maturity, sexual and emotional maturity. I was/am the guy who could and did say “no” far more then I ever said yes. It never mattered to me what a girl’s/woman’s past was- all that mattered to me was if we connected up stairs (well, her looks as well) and whether that could translate to the bedroom- at the right time. Do I/ did I have a low sex drive? Hardly. When in love, three times a day was my “normal” appetite- and I was never a 20 minute man. Today, after 20 years of knowing her, four children- one of whom died, I still get hard when I look into her eyes, feel her touch or smell her. The sound of her voice when she feels sad brings forth my sense of love and devotion to her- just as her laughter makes me feel proud to be hers, and that she is mine. How many times a week? That depends, but it always is at least 5. You know what else? I can remember each and every time we conceived one of those four children. And that, children, is priceless.
In summation, you can love and enjoy someone for ever. You can find immense joy and fulfillment in a real courtship and, what’s more, you can learn who someone really is if you take the time- to be friends first, sex toys later. Easy sex cheapens any potential relationship and, what’s more, I came to the conclusion that it destroys one’s ability ( over the long term) to be truly involved with someone and thereby destroys the ability to have a long and lasting love affair with someone- I have had the pleasure to enjoy a 20 year long love affair with an extraordinarily beautiful woman. I wouldn’t trade that or any day of it for a 100 more one night stands with anyone.
I am not worthy. Thank you.
I was in a philosophical mood. But I came to feel strongly about this by my mid twenties. And even more so by the time I married at age 30. Had I not had the friendship with her, I would have moved on, never knowing what lay ahead. But the friendship kept us within talking distance and the rest- a deep and abiding love grew from there.
Friendships matter- genuine friendships are what’s missing in this modern world of ours.
Well, I featured you in your own article:
http://www.chrisabraham.com/2006/05/real_dating_adv.php
Wow, that’s beautiful. It reminded me of my parents.
My folks have been together for 32 years now, and are truly each other’s best friends. They’ve had their tough periods, but it’s that friendship that allows them to endure, and continues to drive their passion for each other. They’ve seen each other, and us kids, through heart attacks, stroke, cancer, major accidents, rehab, weddings, divorces, babies, heartache and success.
I grew up seeing that love and kindness for one another illustrate itself in ways, that as a child, I did not grasp the full impact of at the time. One of my favorite memories was finding the love poems that my dad (a scientist) wrote on graph paper to my mom, taped on the inside of the kitchen cabinets. My mom always met my dad at the airport, with flowers and a smile.
A few years ago, after a particularly bad breakup, I sat down and had a long talk with them: what makes a relationship truly work? How can you all make it last for 30 years, when I can barely make it last for one? The answer that they both gave was friendship. If a love relationship is to work, you absolutely have to take the time to build the friendship first and foremost. They looked at each other, smiled, and said that their key to happiness was that they married their best friend.
Why would anyone settle for less than that?
Stephanie-
That’s what I wanted- to marry my best friend “in the whole wide world”. Someone that I could tell anything to.
I met her in the 80’s- not a good time for monogamous relationships, just listen to the lyrics of the songs of the day and you will know what I mean.
I could tell on the third date that she wanted more then a kiss goodnight. And so I looked into her eyes and said to her what that older woman had told me 6 years earlier- “first we must be friends”. She didn’t really understand that right then anymore then a lot of people will who stumble across this blog and see this. But I did.
Perhaps it was serendipity that intervened on our behalf, but she had met two women in their late 40’s in a psych class just before we started dating. And they, about one month into that dating, explained it to her, that I was behaving like a man seeking a woman and a friend who would be there for the rest of my life. That I was treating her like a human being, not an object for momentary gain. It meant so much to her that it made her cry. Funny thing is, is, she never told me about those women. She didn’t want me to know that she was not as “sophisticated” as I. She only told me many many years later.
I could tell you of so many moments of tenderness and genuine caring, but that’s not the purpose here. It is just to say that genuine love is possible- and so is lust, desire and passion- even twenty years later. Just thinking about her fills me with it.
The thing is, is that it’s okay for a man or a woman to say “first we must be friends” and then stand by it. I guarantee you that if the person is the right one, it will be more then worth it, it will be the most enchanting moment of your life when it happens. The tenderness and real caring will far outweigh any sexual experience you have ever known. And the friendship will last a lifetime- maybe more.
I’m uncomfortable with this implicit dichotomy:
Either it’s a meaningless one-night stand and you’re a dog, or you wait to be friends first in hopes of falling in love and you’re a saint.
While noble in its effort to dissuade “meaningless sex,” I’m afraid the stigma it brings along is actually very limiting when it comes to real life.
Currently I’m not seeing anyone. I’m very much in transition, about to move across the country. But I do want companionship, just not a long-term relationship. This doesn’t mean I just want to have sex with strangers. Because I really do believe in the value of a healthy short term relationship:
Two people, in a similar place for a time together, finding comfort and joy with one another while really knowing it might not be forever, for ever eva, for eva eva.
To me, it’s about loving wholly without any expectation. I don’t need future guarantees to give it my all. This, to me, is true vulnerability
A few years ago I met a woman and from the moment we saw each other we were rapt. We had an amazing summer affair, lots of sex from the get-go, great fun, but nothing deep, nothing emotional. In the years since, we’ve stayed in touch, and are now great friends, real confidants, who do not have sex anymore.
I say: Sex first, then we can be friends.
Robert,
Let me add that while I’m open to short term relationships now, while I’m young, I aspire to one day achieve the same level of sustained companionship, love, support, and intimacy you have with your wife. There is nothing in this life that I want more.
You are an inspiration to us all.
David
David-
When I was young and very immature I thought the same way. But the truth is, you cannot (in this world) have your cake and eat it to. I came to this conclusion when I was around 24. It was then that I decided that every time you slept with someone you gave up a piece of yourself- forever lost to that other person.
If I were going to give myself away, then I wanted to give it to someone I loved. It took me three more years to find that person and it took another three years to fully engage her.
You see, David, I had known that kind of friendship and love at a very young age- but, like you, I wanted my cake and to eat it too. I lost her because of that. I had been spoiled by that love and devotion. I learned my lesson- and I learned from that older woman. The truth is, David, that I had gained nothing and I had lost the world. So it was with great relief that I once again found someone to be friends with- to share the totality of our lives. Someone with whom I felt at home with and could talk to in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning.
When love walks through the door, you must be ready for it- you cannot be ready for it if you are busy trying to bed every woman (as if in heat) you come across. Treat them as they should be treated- as God’s gift to man, rather then as a masturbation tool. If you try that, truly learning to love all women, you may come to see them in an entirely different light. You may just learn to see them as friends and not an enemy that needs to be conquered.
Robert,
The dichotomy persists. Because I believe that in fact I can have meaningful sexual relations that aren’t lead-ups to life-long commitments, I’m immature and treating women like my masturbation tool.
It’s this black or white thinking that’s bugging me.
In the above post I explicitly say that I do not try to bed every woman I meet; further, like you, I won’t give myself away unless there’s an emotional connection there.
But I can’t believe that there are no shades of gray between celibacy and sexual soul-union.
It’s partly a cultural thing. We’re raised to believe in marriage as an institution, and any deviance from that path, no matter how meaningful to the participants, is seen as inferior.
Your language suggests that I’ve hit a nerve: you call me “immature,” “in heat,” and say that I’m trying to “conquer” women as “enemies” and “masturbation tools”.
Immature, sometimes. In heat, seasonally. But I don’t think I painted such a masochistic self-portrait, and I can’t help but wonder why this riled you so. I wasn’t assailing your marriage. Rather, as I mentioned, I admire it.
So, between batchlerhood and a ring, what path do you suggest?
We date, yes. But must every woman we date be a potential life mate? I don’t think so.
If you do, that’s fine. But as I recalled above, what started as a very casual, amicable tryst, has evolved into one of my great friendships. Had I not been open to that experience, I would not have my friend today.
I’m recently out of a long-term relationship that walked through my door a few years ago. Circumstances, not personal disputes, broke us apart. It was a joyous time together, I miss it often, and look forward to my next relationship like that.
But I’m not looking for my next relationship like that. I’m simply going through life, meeting who I meet, and if there’s a spark, giving it some kindling and seeing what happens.
If it bursts into the raging love of my life, hallelujiah! But if it flares up, then dies down, I’m okay with that, and will not see it as energy, or love, misplaced.
I never endorsed marriage, I only endorsed the long game. The short game is opportunistic. I think you’re a long game guy even if the long game ends up being friendship and not a marriage. Too many people marry because that was the next logical step. It isn’t, considering 1/2 of marriages end in divorce and cheating is “normal.”
Marriage should never be the next logical step, rather it should come at that point when you truly want to grow old with that person. It is/was meant to be a life long commitment of friendship between a man and a woman- one of the side benefits being the raising of children in a secure and loving environment. One of the fruits for those children is seeing what real love and commitment is- and thus they learn what it means.
You hit no nerve, David, rather I had the impression that you thought I didn’t get it. I got it- I lived it. I was, shall we say, very popular. But what I learned in all of that is that even when women won’t admit it, it hurts them to feel used. Just like it hurts a man. Remember the time period I’m talking about here- the mid seventies to the late 80’s. A good portion of that time, VD was not even a consideration- people just did whatever they wanted. It left one wanting- more often then not wanting to run in the opposite direction. How much fun is it bumping into a one night stand at a cocktail party? Or having that person assigned to you as a lab partner? How about finding out that the woman you just met and are very attracted to is her friend? Depression amongst women on America campuses is at an all time high- it does indeed correlate with promiscuous behavior- however that’s defined now a days. But I digress.
I have to laugh at young men (and those that I knew in their own day) that loved the chase and the one night stands- then, when finally ready to “settle down” bemoan the fact that all that is left are “tramps” and left overs. That “all the good ones are taken”. I have heard many a woman make the same claim when they hit 35 or 40. It’s not a pretty site to see.
Falling in love with falling in love is not the answer either. That’s akin to liking a drug- indeed, the euphoria is much the same. Telling yourself that you’re only good for a night or a few years is demeaning to one’s self. A high sense of self esteem means that you know you are better then that and worthy of lasting love. You don’t have to marry the person- not any more, but if you do, you will come to understand the true meaning behind it. What it means to stand before your friends and family and state, of your own free will, that you will love, cherish and honor this person for the rest of your lives. It’s a very powerful statement. It’s just sad that in our society that it’s the easiest contract to break that there is.
But if that isn’t enough to convince of it’s worthiness, David, then consider that married men live 15% longer then men who are not married. In other words, when all that heat of the moment no longer matters, when it comes down to just the enduring friendship, then it means the difference between living to 70 and living to 85. As an aside, a friends father called me one morning to ask for help- he and his wife had broken the bed that morning and he was too embarrassed to ask his sons for help. They were 76 at the time.
What I like about not waiting till I’m old to find someone to die with (that feels like the difference) is that as she ages, I will always remember her youthful beauty- the young woman that I met in the prime of her life. That woman who chose me above all others. I will always see her the way she was that very first time.
I’m not telling you to go looking for someone to marry, David, I’m merely saying that one should be ready for it. I also never said anything about being celibate- I said only that one should wait to be friends. There is a difference, you know. And if you truly enjoy the chase so much, then take it to the next level. It’s relatively easy to talk a woman out of her pants these days- try capturing her heart for the rest of her life- that, my friend, is the ultimate seduction.
And David, go find that woman you loved. If she’s found another, then take her away from him- sweep her off her feet. Make her fall in love with you all over again. Capture her heart and never let it go. If you loved her before then you still do. It takes an awful lot to actually kill true love. It really really does.
Most women will tell you, that while they have loved or thought they loved a few men, there is always just one who captures their heart.
And David, learn to love all women. Most Casanovas enjoy the company of their fellow men more then that of a beautiful woman. They only want to conquer that woman for a short time and they would never ever consider her a “buddy”. My guess is that there are women who feel the same way about men- I’ve just never met one.
Robert,
I think we can stop being contrarian now, because we seem to be on the same page.
I am not a promiscuous dog, and I have many girl buddies (as many or more than my guy buddies, mostly because I find many of my peers insufferable).
And I’m already sold on the idea of marriage – a family, as I mentioned before, is what I look forward to most in this life. Despite my parents’ poor track record, I’m excited to invest myself into it fully, when I find the right woman.
The last woman I loved is probably not the woman I will marry, and that’s fine. I’m young, taking my time, and when SHE shows up, I’m hopeful that I will, indeed be ready.
Robert, I’m sure you “get it,” “got it,” and “had it good.” But I hope you don’t look back and demean whatever happiness and fulfillment you experienced at that time. Just because you are incredibly enriched now, doesn’t mean that your past experiences weren’t worthwhile and even necessary. Likewise, I urge you not to look down from the pedestal of marriage and bemoan shorter-term relationships. For those of us who have not found our life partner, a certain amount of looking around is still in order. (To reitterate, I’m not advocating promiscuity, just trying not to criminalize casual dating.)
In the meantime, I will continue to admire and aspire to a marriage as healthy as yours, and you can continue to remind young bucks like myself that it’s love, not lust, that counts in the end.
David-
I don’t demean any happiness that I found during those years- as I said, there are more then a few that I am still very good friends with. I still talk, write and see them on a regular basis.
And I consider myself very lucky to have had two great loves in my life- but the last, that one was the sweetest, perhaps because by then I knew what I had lost the first time around and treasured it the second time.
Good luck, Young man. Always take the time to smell the roses.