In response to Washington is Revenge of the Nerds, DG asked me,
“I have another take on the nerd dating scene in DC: Is it possible that the women that DC geeks are longing for are just like themselves on the inside (geeks as well), but that they’ve been Elizabeth Arden-ized to look like the prom queens of yore?”
“These DC gal-nerds have become as bitchy as the prom queens of yore because they’re annoyed at being spurned for 20 years and then all of a sudden guys are paying attention to them simply because they’re blI reread this and think that in the case of your example, it is true. But also in your example, it has nothing to do in the end with power, prestige, or pedigree — it has to do with “blonde by bottle and sexy by Sport and Health Club.”onde by bottle and sexy by Sport and Health Club?”
One reason why the pedigreed, nerdy, braniac, DC girls act bitchy is because these nerdy ladies are, at the end of the day, as successful, as powerful, and as hungry for the cute boy they longed for in HS but when women play by men’s rules, it doesn’t work.
Men are not impressed by powerful, rich, women. At all. Maybe by a woman who has a poweful rich dad, but never by a self-made woman. Men don’t like Maureen Dowds (but I do, but they don’t like me) but the Maureen Dowdotype is indignant that the formula,
“first you get the pedigree, then you get the power, then you get the money, then you get the man” doesn’t work for women!
And after the 20-years of being a badass and being a power-broker, and being aggressive and running the world, is that person — woman or man — even datable? I mean, in the case of a lot of the attitude I find in this town, I want to bark:
“You are neither hot nor young enough to pull that shit with me.”*
You can’t dismantle the master’s house with the master’s tools. And you really can’t even own the master’s house…
DG responded with, “You don’t think that young men are? Think of Tom Cruise’s character in Cocktail…Ashton Kutcher…”
I reread this and think that in the case of your example, it is true. But also in your example, it has nothing to do in the end with power, prestige, or pedigree — it has to do with “blonde by bottle and sexy by Sport and Health Club.”
Then DG responded with,
“I wish I could disagree, but you’re right…the scene in Cocktail where Tom Cruise is watching his sugar-mama in leg-warmers doing aerobics, Demi Moore’s expensive, Barbie-doll body. How sad.”
*Shamefully, I actually said this once to someone I was dating. Astounding, I know. Well, DC man,
“For every atom belonging to me, as good belongs to you.”
{ 14 comments… read them below or add one }
I want to preface what I’m about to say that I’m only speaking to my own experience.
Being a girl geek is a tough road. I’m not saying it’s as tough as being an African child-bride, but it’s still not a piece of cake.
Many of us were told, as brainiac chicks that loved our Apple IIes, that technology would be the great equalizer; it would even the corporate playing field. Not only would we earn as much money as our geek brothers, but earn their respect too. It was later down the road that we found the playing field as cliqued and unwelcoming as middle school gym class. We were not equally compensated, and our knowledge was not as respected.
So it’s enough to make me a little sad. As the only female director of an interactive agency, I consistently questioned why I was chosen to do the “soft” client projects – the women’s foundation, the synagogue, the handicapped children’s organization, rather than what my expertise was in: chemistry and manufacturing.
But on to dating. Most geeky guys just aren’t interested in us (for the reasons you detail above). I think geeky girls perhaps also remind guy geeks a little too much of themselves (and thus the things that were beaten into them as “bad-geeky” in middle school). Non-geeky guys more often than not don’t understand what it is that we do, and that can be very threatening.
Not that that’s any excuse to be nasty, rude, or overly obsessed with looks.
But the reality is that it’s harder to find a guy in DC that’s more impressed with my mad skills than he is by my appearance. Girls are taught from a young age that men fall for the looks, then grow to love the personality. (Watch most sitcoms with the fat, boorish husband/hot, sassy wife formula.) Sadly, it’s a notion that still hangs out in the subconscious of even the most intelligent, fiercely geeky ladies I know. We may be educated, traveled, charming, and bright, but that’s not what we told to emphasize.
“Not only would we earn as much money as our geek brothers, but earn their respect too.”
You did! You did! If that was your goal, geeky chick, growing up, then you got what you asked for!
Earning respect is not the same as scoring the hottie boys, though.
“But the reality is that it’s harder to find a guy in DC that’s more impressed with my mad skills than he is by my appearance.”
I am sure guys are super impressed by your mad skills — hell, you have a linux box. But being cool at sports, video games, and being a geek have never been what it takes to make a boy all hot and bothered for you — even though we joke about how cool it is that you play video games and what not.
Being too respected as a geek also means that you can become one of the guys. You have to watch out for becoming the mascot.
Geeky girls who are out for respect are going to get it but we guys are kind of messed up in so far that if you get too much of our respect, you get tracked to “friend” or “mascot.”
And that’s just the way it is, I guess.
Let me preface my reply with this: I write only in the hopes that you are single, attractive, and willing to go out with me (because you have already made it clear that you are well-traveled, pithy and intelligent). Yes, I’m dead serious. (Also maybe because you mention the synagogue my grandma will approve.) Maybe it’s because I’m a guy, maybe I am partway shallow. I think it’s mostly that I am thirsty for an articulate bright woman. So, let me begin.
Things have a way of sorting themselves out. It’s not a complicated issue, frankly. Yes, those of us who were geeks in high school still marvel at the fact that we can get laid by an attractive woman, and we might not care about the substance of the person. But only in the short-term. For those who carry this behavior well into adulthood, well, they’re unhealthy in the skull in more ways than just that. Sorts itself out, don’t it?
I’m not prepared to address the glass ceiling as a man who has not really paid much attention to the issue. In my previous line of work, it wasn’t readily apparent. In my present, it is a little more obvious but still doesn’t seem omnipresent. But of course I am not open to perceiving it most of the time.
We’re out there – the men who want their women to be a tiger in the boardroom, assertive and bold without being brash. I love assertive women. Know what you want – that’s your role as a person. Just be ok with me throwing you down on the living room floor and taking you like jus primae noctis every now and again.
Chris knows how to reach me. Muah.
“Being too respected as a geek also means that you can become one of the guys. You have to watch out for becoming the mascot.”
Absolutely. Until we have a girl mascot of our own, then we’re left to hang with the boys that still want the prom queen.
One of the things that frustrates me the most about being a proud girl geek is the expectation that tech is for the boys, and therefore that *makes* me one of the boys. The guys that I have worked with in the past have always viewed it that way — “Steph, it’s cool – you’re one of the guys.” No, I’m not. When it comes down to it, I’m a woman. Linux knowledge or not, I still think, relate, and emote differently than a man.
“But the reality is that it’s harder to find a guy in DC that’s more impressed with my mad skills than he is by my appearance. —-I am sure guys are super impressed by your mad skills — hell, you have a linux box.”
What I mean by mad skills isn’t my linux box per se, but more that I have a brain, and am not shy about using it. I just don’t understand why that’s so threatening to most men that I meet in DC.
Something that an ex once told me is that he was threatened not so much by the fact that I out-earned him, but more that he knew that he could never “take care of me.” I know that’s culturally important for men, but I was still taken aback by that statement. I’m not asking to be “taken care of,” so what’s the big deal?
“What I mean by mad skills isn’t my linux box per se, but more that I have a brain, and am not shy about using it. I just don’t understand why that’s so threatening to most men that I meet in DC.”
Something that an ex once told me is that he was threatened not so much by the fact that I out-earned him, but more that he knew that he could never “take care of me.” I know that’s culturally important for men, but I was still taken aback by that statement. I’m not asking to be “taken care of,” so what’s the big deal?
Please pardon my arrogance of yesterday. That was (mostly) the nyquil talking. Nasty headcold.
When a particular man feels that he can’t ‘take care of you’, he is addressing both a cultural and a biological drive of great strength.
What perhaps this ex- was unable to articulate is this: if you out-earn him, and don’t need to be taken care of, then for what do you need a man?
Simplistic. Ugly. But it’s what he’s thinking. This type of person is not looking for a partner in life, not interested in an equal. Someone with whom you’re better off without anyhow.
So remember, it’s less a fear of encroachment by women with intelligence than it is a fear of being proven useless and inept.
Let us for a moment pretend Washington DC is a massive concrete factory. Noise, vibration and dust pervade the atmosphere at all hours of the day. You have moved here, and begin complaining.
In the legal world, this called coming to the nuisance.
If you are a self-centered person who needs control in all aspects of your life, this is the town to which you are drawn. If you identify yourself more by your job description than by your dream vacation, this is your town. So it’s difficult to be here, in DC, and complain about the nuisance when the nuisance was here first.
“If you identify yourself more by your job description than by your dream vacation, this is your town.”
Amen, my nyquil-laden friend.
A few years ago, I drove across country with a friend who was moving from DC to CA. We stopped in a lot of bars, and met a load of great people along the way. One of the things that struck me the most about that trip was that NO ONE, NOT A SINGLE PERSON, asked me what I did for a living.
(PS. Dream vacation = beach + books + beer + bikini + breeze.)
“…he knew that he could never “take care of me.” I know that’s culturally important for men, but I was still taken aback by that statement. I’m not asking to be “taken care of,” so what’s the big deal?”
Sweetness, it is not about you.
Babydoll, I have heard that again and again. I have heard the “he knew that he could never take care of me” and the “I’m not asking to be taken care of, so what’s the big deal?” and neither of them have anything to do with you outside of what Faust said, which is, “if you don’t want me to take care of you, and you don’t need ‘being taken care of,’ where is my place in this world. And that still has nothing to do with you.
Let’s repeat it again: it has nothing to do with you.
We men need to take care of our partner. We need to do it. we need to be able to fix things and we need to be the safe harbour and your rock of Gibraltar. It is about our being able to take care of you and your being able to nurture us. We don’t feel like we deserve it.
So, whether you need to be or not (and a lot of the appeal of dating younger woman has to do with the fact that they’re not set in their ways and completely self-sufficient — they’re still hungry and hopeful that amongst we men there is still a knight in shining armor.
And since it isn’t about you and you can’t make it different, it is important just to act like you need him and act like you don’t have a big chip on your shoulder and act like he is enormously well-endowed and knows what to do with it. Fake it til you get over yourself and let some of the vulnerability through.
Out-earning and all this is one thing, but getting all indignant about it and fiercely crying foul and “it ain’t fair” doesn’t work.
And since most DC men are pussies, you kind of have to make the first move sometimes, too, just as long as he never knows that you were first.
Every woman within the sound of my voice need to contact a southern girl and ask her how to be both hard and soft, to be what Faust says beautifully, being “assertive and bold without being brash.”
“Every woman within the sound of my voice need to contact a southern girl and ask her how to be both hard and soft, to be what Faust says beautifully, being “assertive and bold without being brash.”
This southern belle (memphis, sweetie) continually strives . . .
Thanks for your perspective, fellas.
Tread Carefully, Stephanie.
Here there be Tygers.
The confident person will not be intimidated or affronted by your intelligence, verve or ability. If anything, the path before you is easier than for others whose light is dimmer. They won’t know until they’re neck-deep that the water they thought was warm is in fact getting chilly.
Speaking for myself, I like confident and assertive women. But at the end of the day, if she doesn’t want to rest her head on my shoulder and recharge her batteries, I truly will not feel that my role as a man is fulfilled. And I will be unhappy as a result. Because, don’t you realize, dear Stephanie, that is what recharges our batteries.
(ps: ideal vacation = beer+scooters+diving+misadventures+stall food+books)
Stephanie,
As a fellow female with a bit of a geeky side herself, I hear what you’re saying. And have been equally frustrated by the dearth of men who can appreciate both my intellectual curiosity and capabilities along with the more stereotypically feminine traits.
Instead of crying foul, perhaps it’s better to embrace your lucky position. As geeks, we can know our world with an intensity and depth that our more vacuous compatriots cannot. Believe me, the intrinsic value of such a broadened worldview is so much more than anything the attentions of lesser men–such as Faust described–could provide.
As assertive women, we can pursue our career goals and gain an incredible level of fulfillment. And as women, we can be openly loving, nurturing, supportive; we can BE the rock of Gibraltar and be completely unafraid of leaning on another. We can be vulnerable and strong. We can covet the little black dress and feel the frisson of pleasure that comes from finding the perfect strappy shoes, and yet return home and be engrossed in a book about molecular genetics. It can be cool for us to enjoy video games and dirt-biking, and yet we can return home and make a great candlelight dinner for two.
This is not to say that men can’t be any or all of these things (though hopefully ecstatic over an Armani suit and not the little black dress). However, society places stricter standards on outward expression when it comes to men. What a stifling existence in some ways.
And what a privelege it is to be able to be vulnerable in the arms of the one who means the most to us. How wonderful to know that we’re providing him perhaps an even greater privelege.
As geek women, we can be ladies in the drawing room, tigers in the boardroom, and whores in the bedroom. And that’s pretty f’ing cool.
I am a whore in the boardroom and a tiger in the bedroom.
“As geek women, we can be ladies in the drawing room, tigers in the boardroom, and whores in the bedroom. And that’s pretty f’ing cool.”
Absolutely! Thanks for the perspective, Natalie.