Tobey Grumet wrote a very interesting article for MSN Dating & Personals, Men reveal: ‘Why I date younger women’
Men reveal: ‘Why I date younger women’
By Tobey Grumet
Ever feel like all the men your age are dating women half your age? OK. Maybe not half your age. But you get the idea. What makes men drawn to younger women? Is it just about looks and our youth-centric culture? Well, that’s part of it. But you might be surprised that the real reasons go way beyond the physical. Men, it turns out, are a bit more complicated than that!
It’s about math…
“When you reach your late 30s, it’s not so much that dating a younger woman becomes more attractive, it’s just harder not to. The law of averages means that proportionately fewer women your age are single. But dating a woman in her 20s when you’re approaching 40 is also less demanding; you’re not faced with the same requirements to make a decision about your future. When your new girlfriend is 36, she expects you’re thinking about the next few years, not just the next few dates.???
—Colin, 38, Chicago, IL
Have it my way
“I’d say the allure is that younger women are less judgmental and less set in their ways. They don’t (yet) have a laundry list of what they want in a partner, in a career, in a life. Younger women are more user-friendly, I suppose. I think that kind of attitude appeals to thirtysomething guys who want a relationship to really be on our terms.”
—Larry, 35, Edison, NJ
The fun patrol
“Honestly, younger women are sometimes more open to goofy good times than a women who has a few years on her. You can invite them to Kung Fu Hustle without getting a skeptical look.???
—Mitchell, 39, Baltimore, MD
Check all baggage, please
“The appealing thing about younger women is their outlook on life. They tend to be untainted by experiences that have hardened older women. Like when a woman’s been lied to a lot after years of dating, she always thinks you’re lying to her. And that’s a turnoff. Younger women are less cynical and that’s a big draw.???
—Alan*, 46 New York
Marriage-minded…not!
“What makes a younger woman a good catch? She’s not itching to have a ring on her finger. She’s interested in the here and now, in going out, in having fun. It may sound like a cliché, but it’s reality. I’m not anti-marriage, I’m just anti-agenda. A younger woman seems more willing to let things take their natural course.???
—Roger, 35, New York, NY
The age-defying principle
“When a guy reaches a certain age, he worries he sees his youth and vitality wane. A younger woman reaffirms for me that I’ve still got it going on.”
—Mike, 40, Orlando, FL
Let me lead…
“One advantage of dating a younger woman is that you can play ‘cruise director’—show her all your secret favorite places that she probably hasn’t experienced yet. They’re easier to impress and very willing to be escorted around. Women like it when you have a plan and it’s well-executed.???
—Bill, 33, New York, NY
Comments (45)
Translation:
I don’t wanna grow up, I’m a Toys R Us Kid. I can’t deal with pressure, or mature conversation on a somewhat consistent basis, or the possibility of commitment, or the fact that I myself am getting older and my window may be closing. I’m only as old as who I feel, after all. Besides, the statistics say it’s not my fault.
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
Interesting, because one reason why I shied away from older men in the past was because I figured THEY were looking for marriage and I wasn’t. Strange how things work. Ah, the great communication divide…
I think it comes down to what you said. I am pretty sure that I am a bachelor-for-life!
Or perhaps you just need to be tamed…
(…she said facetiously.)
I disagree with Natalie. I’ll use myself as a supporting example. I do not date younger women because I “don’t want to grow up.”
I date them because:
* they’re more likely to let a couple of dates go by before asking you how many children you want
* they’re better looking
* they’re not as bitter / judgmental
* I can.
And usually, the only criticism I hear comes from women my age… huh.
“They’re better looking” Wow, I am impressed that you said that out loud.
On that note, my buddy just came back from the field with stories of the 20-year-old coed he had and she had “skin like butter.”
Cyndi Lauper said it best: “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun.”
Young women, on the other hand, want to have husbands, houses, Mercedes, and babies.
And until a guy is ready to risk half, we also just want to have fun.
Skin that feels like she bathes in nectar butter doesn’t hurt, either. But that said, some younger girls are lacking in technique.
Their inexperience in technique, when paired with their immaturity and general lack of insight into the world, explains why our relationships with younger women don’t last long.
And this makes sense: fresh fruit never lasts long.
In DC, you actually have to train the “older women” too. Men in DC must be really awful. I have to undo some very bad habits. I am pretty sure that DC men don’t know where g-spot OR the clitoris are — or, more accurately, they don’t care.
This is true and important to internalize for women and men, “Intercourse isn’t the primary way to achieve orgasm for most women. Only around 30% can orgasm this way. Most women need additional stimulation, such as clitoral stimulation in order to orgasm.”
Some other interesting tidbits…
“When it comes to having orgasms: 42% of women usually have orgasms during sex with their partner. 29% always have an orgasm during sex. 25% sometimes or rarely have orgasms. 4% of women in America are not orgasmic with their partner.”
“5% of women say they can achieve orgasm through fantasy, nipple stimulation or by simply squeezing their legs together.”
“Percentage of people who orgasm every time they have sex: Men: 75 Women: 29″
“If you have never had an orgasm, it’s more likely due to the fact that you don’t know how, rather than because you can’t.”
And, the most important stat:
“One study found that only 7.7 percent of women whose lovers spent 21 minutes or longer on foreplay failed to reach orgasm.”
I think all three of you are nailing it now (well, maybe only David). Basically because their bodies are better, they’re more attractive, etc. I’d substitute Anthony’s “not as judgemental” with “much more naive,” and Chris’s “they think we’re worldly” with “we can get away with lots more shit because they don’t know any better.”
I don’t have a problem with it (as long as everyone plays fair), but maybe I’ll feel differently when I catch up to you people. Of course, by then, I’ll be lusting after 26-year olds, too.
What do you men think of older women and younger men? Ever experienced an older woman when you yourself were younger?
Hmm.. I’m not sure. I think “knowing better” is code for “growing bitter”. I don’t think being non-judgmental necessitates being more naive.
To the older woman question - no, I haven’t.
40 when I was 26.
And how was it?
It was awesome although I didn’t learn anything. I was hoping to be educated. In France it is traditional that a young man is with an older woman and she is pleased by his youth and vigor and he is pleased with her appreciation and her skill and tutelage. Alas.
Anthony–I do think there’s a difference between “knowing better” and “becoming bitter.” There’s a lot of shit that I put up with when I was 20 that I wouldn’t take now–not for being high-maintenance (I’m quite the opposite, actually), but for growing into a stronger person, developing my own self-respect, etc etc. The two are totally different.
In other words, the girl who won’t take thinly-veiled verbal abuse *knows better*, and the girl who dumps her boyfriend because he likes to watch football on Sundays *is bitter.* Or psycho. Whichever.
Natalie,
Understood. You are right - many 20 year olds are more likely to tolerate lots of bullshit that a 35 year old wouldn’t - often just because they think they have to.
I was just overpersonalizing it. What I was thinking was that as a no-bullshit guy, their tendency to tolerate bullshit does not make them more appealing to me.
Well, I think it might be a cultural thing. I think that today’s 24-year-old women no longer have such a chip on their shoulders.
Strappy shoes, butt jeans, waxing, plucking, one-night-stands, and lemon drop shots are no longer inconsistant with being a tough, smart, capable, and a feminist.
Being feminine, doing “girly stuff,” and being vulnerable — wait, especially this:
Women in their 20s in 2006 are really into allowing their boys to be boys and their men to be men, rather than defining all of what we men are about as:
“Putting up with his shit.”
He’s not giving shit, he’s just being a guy.
Of course, just because of the power difference between men and women, both physically (strength and reproduction) and the fact that the double-standard is alive and kicking, I don’t think that what I call Manonolo Blahnik Feminism will all be light-side but has a massive dark side as well.
Hmm. I have been told by every single man/guy/boy
that has known me for 5 - 20 yrs that I am hotter and more attractive now at age 37 than ever. What’s up with that is the appeal that comes with self confidence (aka not putting up with shit)and having enough life experience to add alot more spice to the mix than naivete ever could. Plus, let’s face it - women in there late 30’s - mid 40’s are in their prime. Can men that age just not keep up?
If you feel hot, you are hot, if you feel sexy, you are sexy. And there is nothing in the world, anonymous, that could keep that 23-year-old boy from falling madly in love-lust with you. Obviously!
Oh, and there is no way that I have ever been able to keep up with you, and I have known you for 11 of those years. You were always too sexy, too cool, and too much for me. That’s just who you are. And your daughter is the same. My Lord, what a sweet handful the two of you are!
Women in their late 30’s and early 40’s are not in their “prime” in any of my personal definitions of the word “prime”.
It’s not that men that age can’t keep up - it’s that a lot of them are busy with 20 year olds.
How old is your daughter?
Beauty has nothing to do with age, well as far as women are concern it dosn’t. A few good reasons why women should have younger men.
1) Men age much earlier than women because they loose collagen in their skin at an earlier age than women. What women wants a man with leathery looking skin?
2)Women have a later physical peak than men.
3) world wide there is more men under 50 years old, logic women should have younger men because that is where they are, and men should have older women because that is where they are.
4) Women live on average in the western world 5 years longer, so if women marry younger men they are less likely to be on their own in old age.
5) There are certain illness like dementia that effects men at a earlier age, so who wants to marry a man and then a few years later he has dementia?
The only reason why men take younger women is to dominate and because of tradition. I would never date a man older than myself because I want to fancy him and I am 42 and I think that there is not a man on this planet that I am attracted to who is over 40 years of age. Whereas women can look better with age, you only have to think of “Despirate house wives” can you find a man that looks still good in his 40s? men look their best in their twenties but women are just much kinder to men than men are to women and that is why more women marry older men because they say well he might not look nice but he has a good heart. However men only seem to be interested in the veneer.
I think women should date younger men for these reasons.
1) men loose collagen in their skin at an earlier age than women, so if women want a nice looking guy she is better off with someone younger.
2) women have a later physical peak
4) world wide there are more men under the age of 50 and more women over, so logic go were there are most of what you are looking for. Women should look for younger men and men should go for older women.
5) On average women in the western world live 5 years longer, so to make sure that women have someone in their old age they should find a younger man so that they will both die at a similar time.
The only reason why men go for younger women is to dominate and because of tradition, and traditoin never favours women. I also think that women look at the whole person and they don’t just go for the veneer but they go for personality too, so women are kinder to men than men are to women. Men don’t care about anything except how someone looks it seems.
To Older women,
The reason why more men date younger women?
There are just more female whores in the world than man whores.. that’s why.
I am a 20 year old girl myself and have friends who sometimes “date” older men. Most of the time it’s for the perks and not really about the relationship or love or anything nice like that. They know why they are wanted by them and they know what they can get and what they will give etc. I guess it’s a win win situation. Just like men might talk among themselves about baby smooth peachy skin of younger women, so do younger women talk about not so nice skin or sagged asses of older men. Don’t feel bad older women, because these older men get exactly what they ask for… superficial using each other relatinoships. I am not saying that some older men happen to date women who happen to be a lot younger than themseleves and they genuinely care about each other etc… but most of the time it’s just whoring both ways. BTW, a lot of male friends of mine like to date older women. So you should go after them if you want.
mel & lindsay:
ever think that a male’s preference for youth could have something to do with evolutionary fitness as well?
i mean, yeah, they are hotter. they’re hotter for a reason.
i’ve already said it all in here…
i think that older men or men in their 30’s forget that there are single women that have no baggage, that aren’t bitter, that have goals they want to attain, and still enjoy life and want no attachments. why go for someone younger that will be so co-dependent on you for everything when you can be with someone who is stable and independent. it just makes more sense. i wouldn’t want to be with someone younger just for that reason. I want common backgrounds, at least someone growing up from the same decade.
I think that when we’re looking for a wife, we men actually want someone who is dependent on us for everything, actuall, whereas when we’re looking for business partners and best friends, we look for someone “who is stable and independent.”
Don’t forget, that in the marriage ceremony, we are given you by your father. By the very nature of the ceremony of marriage, don’t we hope to get a woman who depends on us for everything?
Men want to be men, I think, and have the ability in a life where there are so few opportunities to be “the man,” I think men are looking to really have the opportunity to be the provider, to be the strong hunter, the cornerstone for the family.
Someone who is looked up to and admired as formidable and powerful by his little family.
I don’t know if stable and independent is something men ever consider as a selling point in a bride. Women should stop selling that as it is never anything that men are looking for in women, not when dating or when considering marriage.
We are afraid: we are afraid that we are non-essential, we’re afraid of being fungible, of being a sperm donor, of being the “wife” in the relationship. We are scared shit that you will end up rolling your eyes, regretting the decision, becoming bitter, nagging us, being disappointed, and not doing your job: providing the support it takes to make us the best men we can humanly become.
And of course we expect quid pro quo — we don’t expect this to just be one-way. We just want to make sure there is reciprocity from the get-go.
Otherwise, we feel like we’ll always be a disappointment to you and this feeling will either result in divorce, either out of your disappointment or because we push you away because we don’t feel the kind of sexual, emotional, personal, mental, and spiritual devostion — the adoration — we really in our heart of hearts, demand.
See, so that’s what is going on in our heads.
I am rather appalled at how consistently the “older??? women participating in the “Why Men Date Younger Women??? characterize their younger sisters as vapid, shallow, characterless bimbos.
Shame on you! Shame on you for degrading your younger sisters to comfort yourselves!
There is a pitiful attempt at camouflaging this self-serving, demeaning, exploitive stereotyping by couching the commentary in the politically-correct exercise of criticizing men, but frankly, there are two parties being judged in every critique of an older-man/younger woman relationship.
When Natalie paints the men in such a relationship as not able to “deal with pressure, or mature conversation, or… commitment??? what is she saying about the women in these relationships? Let’s be honest, she’s just saying in mirror-fashion that the women in these relationships have no backbones, no intellect, and no seriousness when it comes to the men they are with.
When Mel declares that men enter relationships with younger women to “dominate and because of tradition??? what is she saying about the women in those relationships? Not difficult to do the mental mirroring here: Mel wants us to see those younger women as weak and so lacking in character that they cannot make their own life decisions in the face of others’ demands on them.
Shame on you for painting these young women as insubstantial Barbie dolls simply because they are with men your age.
Two names for you: Jacqueline Kennedy and Winnie Mandela. Google them and do the math. I’ll let you think of the other few billion women of character, intelligence, and strength who in their early 20’s chose to be with men considerably older than them.
Drop the stupid and damaging stereotyping, and for the sake of all women, have the character to excuse yourself publicly and to recount your shameful caricaturing of young women. Life is challenging enough for women in their 20’s without having to face bitter and unfair denigration from their older sisters.
1) There is a Sex in the City episode like this. It all came down to “20s women are silly girls until they take your boyfriend.”
2) Natalie is an early 20s girl herself, ironically, who has been known to date older men, herself. I guess she was being a devil’s advocate.
3) Some people are just unattractive, anappealing, undesirable, undateable, unengageable, and unmarriageable no matter what age or even how young.
4) Not even the best lawyer can argue a man into dating the most logical choice in women.
5) We men want to be adored, nurtured, supported, loved, and cherished, not pursuaded.
6) The choice of a mate is logical but it is based on man-logic not your logic.
Dearest Mark (she says in complete adoration),
Please forgive me for the albeit-subconscious unfair mirroring of my 20’s female brethren. It’s so hard to be aware of my own opinions–veiled or ostensibly obvious–without your interpreting them for me. I am most grateful.
Yours,
Natalie
P.S. In case it wasn’t clear, just like everyone else on here I was speaking to the rule rather than the exception. Sorry if it wasn’t clear…but I stand by my original posts. That IS generally what a man is looking for if he GOES OUT SPECIFICALLY LOOKING for a considerably younger woman. However, none of us can control who we meet, let alone who we fall in love with.
If a man goes out looking for an independent, intelligent, confident, capable woman–who happens to be incredibly supportive and full of adulation for her man but has low tolerance for bullshit and will call him out on it in private while smiling with him publicly–and she *happens* to be in her early 20’s, then good for him. He’s hit the jackpot.
However, most men looking for early 20’s first, personal characteristics second are indeed looking for–and get–just what was described above.
I notice nobody is criticizing Chris for his characterization of the fragile male ego. And how the world/relationships should revolve around protecting it.
Hmmm.
Well, only if you want to date and marry men do you have to protect and worship the fragile male ago. Otherwise, you’re good to go. When we “just have sex with you” we don’t actually reveal the fragile male ego. So, in many cases, you never have to deal with it if you don’t want either intimacy or asked to be married or to marry. Everybody has a fragile male ego — women, too.
“But has low tolerance for bullshit and will call him out on it in private.” What a jackpot! Yes, and we love nagging, too.
Dearest Natalie (and I’m sure I will adore you when I finally meet you - if my best friend Chris does, then I am bound to as well),
Extracting and unveiling other writers’ unconscious opinions and assumptions is one of the most common exercises of feminist critique. It’s generally referred to as deconstruction. You’re not alone in hating being deconstructed; in fact, you’re in the rarified company of most of our culture’s greatest writers and thinkers. Most all have fallen under the scalpel of various feminist, gay, race, etc. theorists; and deconstruction is a favorite tool of liberation for those who feel the dominant culture is unfairly defining them in the corset of it’s arrogant, unspoken, unquestioned assumptions and “givens”
Now, specific to your commentary, you seem to not only be unwilling to take back any of your demeaning characterizations of young women who are with older men, you continue to take pains to further paint them (and perhaps yourself, given your formulation?) as helpless, hapless victims, saying “none of us can control who we meet, let alone who we fall in love with”.
I would take direct exception to this statement of yours. I think most everyone who exercises sovereignty over his or her life has almost total control over whom he or she meets romantically and comes to love. It’s not as if we’re living in remote villages and being presented for arranged marriages.
Now if with “none of us” you were referring to, say, you and your close girlfriends, I could fully accept you stating that that group of you seems to be unable to control who you meet or fall in love with (and were I not in an absolutely delicious relationship already, I might go prey on this lot of clearly intelligent and attractive but apparently defenseless girls…). However, you insist quite explicitly that your characterizations are the rule, and not the exception. That is where I have to draw a line in the sand and say that you are not only wrong, but that your characterizations and generalizations are degrading, demeaning, unfair, and destructive. There may well indeed be plenty of weak, characterless, unintelligent, unchallenging young women in the world, but a woman’s choosing to be with a man older than she should by no means be any reason to assume those things about her.
Natalie, your logic is flawed, your characterizations are flawed, and your propagating prejudices such as you are is unfair and quite damaging.
That said, Chris thinks you’re a superstar, and thus, I’m sure I’ll think the same as well should I ever get the pleasure of meeting you. I hope he’ll make the introduction if I’m ever back in DC.
“I notice nobody is criticizing Chris for his characterization of the fragile male ego. And how the world/relationships should revolve around protecting it.”
Yeah, that’s because we all know it’s true: both men honestly, and women, deep in their denial-space.
When you make fun of us as being boys, it is true.
We’ll perform at the office and during the days before we marry or really become committed, but everyone wants to be nurtured and adored.
Don’t you, lovely Natalie?
Darling Mark (and you are assuredly as brilliant and charming as Chris has led me to believe),
Thank you for your thoughtful commentary and carefully-worded flattery. Your prose is poignant and intriguing, but I maintain my position.
Because, you see, my position was emphatically NOT about 20’s women in general–it was about the type of women older men find if and only if they specifically search for a younger woman. Think of the larger set–30-something men looking for a mate–and then the subset–the women 30-something men find when they explicitly search for a younger woman first and foremost.
You, on the other hand, took the larger set to be 20-something women in general, and the smaller focus to be on 30-something men. Not so. I refuse to and do not denigrate all 20-something women, just as I refuse to and do not denigrate all 30-something men.
Rather, I am solely speaking of the 30-something men who go out specifically looking for 20-something women. And by association–and incidentally–the types of 20-something women they find.
Mark, I find it interesting that your focus is more on the female than the male. Perhaps a reluctance to address the actual issue? The issue of why *older men* look for younger women? Perhaps it’s easier for you to think critically about the women. Not quite as easy to turn the lens on the menfolk.
I do appreciate your argument, but would like to hear something more related to what I was saying and not to the loophole, as it were.
Yours most fondly,
Natalie
P.S. Unlikely that we’ll ever meet, as I can’t twist Chris’s arm hard enough to get him to have a drink with me these days, apparently. I’m sure a sign of his good taste.
Chris,
Actually, you’re right. The world DOES revolve around protecting the fragile male ego. Which is why women never seem to have enough time on their hands.
As far as “everyone want[ing] to be nurtured and adored,” you’re right about that as well. Everyone, myself included. There is an art to nurturing that does not include condescension.
As such, the woman who publicly supports her man but is able to be honest with him in private being a (shocker!) valuable commodity, contrary to your initial bristling. Let’s face it: you don’t want a vapid, insipid girl who will agree with you for the sake of agreement. Rather, you want a woman who would never embarass you but whom you could rely on to give an honest, constructive opinion. Don’t you?
Maybe, but it is all about nuance. And some women will easily misinterpret “counsel, honestly, and constructive” as a license to nag, complain, and verbally attack his insecurities and weaknesses.
So, that is such a powerful thing about which you speak and so many people are so black and white, I would be afraid to admit with a “yes.”
“I can’t twist Chris’s arm hard enough to get him to have a drink with me these days . . . I’m sure a sign of his good taste.”
You’re not alone. I don’t go anywhere with anyone these days, so it isn’t personal. I ignore all people equally.
I’m 22 and my boyfriend is 34. He used to date older women until he met me. I make him feel alive again…I let him be a man instead of treating him as if he were my personal pet or child. Theres nothing wrong with a man that wants a change of pace, and a more dominant role in the relationship. I make him smile and worry less with my simpler view on life. Face it, the older the women is, the more baggage that she carries.
I have something to add to this topic. Men who are 40 and over are only dating younger to boost there own ego. I have been dating a man for 18 months now and he says he loves me (whatever) but says that I need to accept what he does because he takes care of me. I am with him every night but he still finds the time to be with a younger girl. He will either lie about his age or use his money. To me men who have money to share as he puts it buys younger woman. Most 20 year olds are not in it for the looks or for the real man that they are, its just for the money. He will give them whatever they want and thats all that matters. He thinks just because he lives in a 2 million dollar home, drive a Mercedes, owns his own business and dresses real well; then he is the man and he will do whatever he wants because he can. Just remember the 19 and 20 year olds are not there to love or care. (I was 20 at one time) They will not be there to see the real you or will they be there when times get hard…….
lol my husband of 22 years left me for a girl 20 years younger than himself ..he has to pay lots of money to me …i look better than ever and the young one left him after she got a decent job to support herself…so he was good for cutting grass and paying bills …one of my friends is married to an older man ..and she hates the sex after 10 years of marriage he cant keep up with her..so he gets a little help from younger man now..a young woman told me very honestly she dates this guy 23 years older because he takes her out of town and payes bills …and on and on we go …i date a man that is 5 years younger and he can keep up with me if he tries really ..hart ..but never the less i would have much rather keept my husband and loved him till death do us appart …my point is the grass isnt always greener on the other side and love is more than outside things …much love to all…
Men date younger women because they are weak and stupid. They prefer their equals to their superiors, intelectually and emotionally. It has nothing to do with body or commitment issues or any other excuse they want to give. It is sheer weakness.
Melanie - I’m pretty sure men date younger women because older women are:
Jaded, stressful, critical, bitter, demanding, and we can’t figure out why they haven’t found a man to settle down with so unless we miss our guess, something is wrong with you. Note that I got all that just by reading your jaded, stressful, critical, bitter and demanding post. The proof, as they say, is in that pudding. Also, “superior?” Why would any self respecting man want to be with a woman who he sees as simply belittling him?
So what’s the upside for a man, say, over 30, to date someone his own age?
Both my self and this other guy have partners.. We’re in the same class. He is in his early 40’s I am in my mid 20’s. He says he likes me I am beautiful and classy. What really might be his agenda? He is nice, he doesn’t make feel awkward or anything but honestly.. I’ve never had a man over 28 like me.. or not that I know of?
uh…why are the older women worried about the men that just want younger women? You know these men are the ones you wouldn’t want anyways, right?
That is the most sane thing I have ever heard!